Skip to main content

Questions tagged [lightning-routing]

The tag has no usage guidance.

Filter by
Sorted by
Tagged with
29 votes
3 answers
6k views

How are paths found in Lightning Network?

I understand now how multihop payments can work in LN, but how do we discover payment paths in Lightning Network in the first place? Obviously you'd need to take into account the available capacity ...
Murch's user avatar
  • 75.9k
15 votes
3 answers
3k views

Is centralization in the Lightning network inevitable? Why (not)?

Especially keeping in mind the possibility of single-funded channels (see Tadge's Google Doc Slides), buying from an exchange and concurrently opening a payment channel on the Lightning network would ...
Murch's user avatar
  • 75.9k
11 votes
1 answer
1k views

Lightning Route Discovery - How to know capacity in each direction?

So i have a question how routing works in the LN. I read partly through the RFC described in https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lightning-rfc but I have still this open question. I know every node ...
blacktemplar's user avatar
10 votes
1 answer
2k views

How is a node in the middle prohibited from keeping the money in a routed Payment in Lightning network?

It is my understanding that Lightning is to scale with users having only few payment channels by leveraging the six degrees of separation theory to facilitate payment routing. I understand how onion ...
Murch's user avatar
  • 75.9k
9 votes
2 answers
1k views

What criteria should be taken into account when selecting nodes to create new lightning channels with?

Alex Bosworth recently pointed out: I see people connect to a "well connected" node on LN and by that they mean they connect to a node with lots of channels. The number of channels is actually a ...
Murch's user avatar
  • 75.9k
9 votes
1 answer
671 views

What are the downsides of Hodl Invoices?

As far as I understand hodl invoices enable some interesting use cases. However, I heard that they can be detrimental to the network. Is that correct and in what way? Additionally, at a talk at the ...
nickler's user avatar
  • 776
9 votes
1 answer
479 views

Can PTLCs and HTLCs be mixed along a route?

When PTLCs get introduced on the Lightning Network, do all hops along a route need to use just one of either HTLCs or PTLCs, or would it be possible to create a route where some nodes use PTLCs and ...
Murch's user avatar
  • 75.9k
9 votes
1 answer
641 views

Would it be possible to send money through the Lightning Network to an offline address?

My understanding is that the current Lightning Network spec requires an address receiving money to sign things with its private key - which requires the owner of that key to be online. Are there any ...
B T's user avatar
  • 1,638
9 votes
1 answer
192 views

Channels state validation in lightning network?

I looked into docs but didn't find any information, how do client get information about the state of intermediate channels? Since channel transactions are offchain, and only channel participants ...
alex's user avatar
  • 373
8 votes
1 answer
601 views

What does TLV stand for?

I'm reading about the gossip protocol and wanted to know what a TLV is. I can't find what it means anywhere.
CriptoLuis's user avatar
8 votes
1 answer
644 views

How many paths are tried on average before a payment succeeds in Lightning?

In Lightning, the sender can never be sure that a multi-hop payment will go through, as intermediary nodes don't announce the distribution of funds in their channels (only the total capacity). Is ...
Sergei Tikhomirov's user avatar
8 votes
2 answers
496 views

For lightning network, can I surround myself with a bunch of nodes to increase anonymity?

Let's say I'm on a Lightning Network. Can I create a bunch of nodes, and do all my spending through those nodes? Can you hide the fact that these nodes are likely controlled by the same person? How ...
Christopher King's user avatar
6 votes
1 answer
1k views

Routing in Bitcoin Lightning Network

Here is all we can find in the Lightning Network whitepaper about payment routing process that it is completely unclear to me (at least it is not enough to know what happens exactly at time of finding ...
Questioner's user avatar
  • 1,151
6 votes
1 answer
577 views

Why is last channel's expiry different in Lightning Network Routes?

Both in the Basic of Lightning Technology (BOLT) documents, and in the specification of lnd, there is a different treatment for the last channel in a route. In BOLT#2 it refers to a variable ...
ranchalp's user avatar
  • 567
6 votes
1 answer
330 views

Non-bidirection payment channels for lightning network

I am trying to understand the technology behind LN and similar concepts. As I understand it, LN is a network of bidirectional channels, which are created with some limited capacity, within which the ...
Wapac's user avatar
  • 1,074
6 votes
1 answer
173 views

What is the Big-O for LN bandwidth? Can anyone answer this or provide a link to a spec that is sufficient enough for us to calculate it?

When I worked at Google, if someone wanted to deploy a network application they would need to provide a document to the SREs detailing the behaviour of the application at scale in terms of Big-O. Does ...
Clayton Rabenda's user avatar
6 votes
2 answers
891 views

In the Lightning Network, what happens if a "middle node" suddenly goes dormant for a long while?

I think I have a general understanding of how the Lightning Network works. However, I was having a little difficulty in understanding what happens when a node in the middle of a "path" suddenly goes ...
crypto_rob's user avatar
6 votes
1 answer
245 views

How can I increase the routing my 'small' lighting node performs?

I know this question has been asked a lot. However I am not able to grasp the correct approach to address this. Let me give you the context: I spun up an LND node to start experimenting and ...
jayt.dev's user avatar
  • 203
6 votes
1 answer
3k views

How does lnd's autopilot feature work?

Autopilot automatically connects to peers in order to establish a p2p network. I didn't find however a complete explanation of its motivation and logic.
ripper234's user avatar
  • 26.6k
5 votes
2 answers
413 views

Do the channel balances get publicly announced in real-time on Lightning Network?

In Lightning Network, is the balance publicly announced in real-time? On the one hand, it should be public as it is crucial to the routing mechanism. But, in case that the balance might reveal some ...
user1387682's user avatar
5 votes
2 answers
3k views

Is lightning network limited by the 'size' of channels?

Imagine we start with multiple channels which eventually link two individuals, Alice and Rob: (the BTC amounts is the total locked in their multisig address for their channels between each other) ...
Joe's user avatar
  • 153
5 votes
1 answer
2k views

How do I find the nodeid of the node issuing a lightning network invoice?

I recently got an BOLT11 invoice from a store. For example this one: ...
Rene Pickhardt's user avatar
5 votes
1 answer
532 views

What are the implications of min_htlc_size in "Pickhardt Payments" on the Lightning Network?

I've read the paper "Optimally Reliable & Cheap Payment Flows on the Lightning Network" by Rene Pickhardt & Stefan Richter and I'm tempted to assume the answer to my question, but I ...
Ben de Waal's user avatar
5 votes
1 answer
245 views

How to compute the expected number of sats to arrive in a probabilistic payment flow?

Look at the following network example: Assume S wants to send 3 sats to R. You can further assume that S has enough liquidity in each of its local channels to send up to 3 sats. Also assume the ...
Rene Pickhardt's user avatar
4 votes
3 answers
1k views

Can someone please explain the meaning of "neutrino" within the lightning network?

Rene Pickhardt wrote the below quoted comment in another thread about whether a mobile wallet can be both a full lightning node and wallet at the same time. I have many lightning nodes running but ...
johnsmiththelird's user avatar
4 votes
1 answer
3k views

How does Lightning Network over TOR work?

I'm interested to understand in detail how the lightning network works over Tor. Implementations like lnd, c-lightning etc. offer an extension which allow running TOR with Lightning. I would like to ...
AnnMP's user avatar
  • 143
4 votes
1 answer
1k views

What are atomic multi path payments (AMPs) and why/how is it being implemented in Lightning Network?

There has been a lot of discussion and articles around how the implementation of AMP is going to benefit the routing capabilities of Lightning Network. What is the exact issue in the current ...
Ugam Kamat's user avatar
  • 7,417
4 votes
1 answer
94 views

Why do Lightning packets include channel ids if forwarding is non-strict?

The onion packets in Lightning, as described in BOLT 4, include short_channel_id's of the channels along the route constructed by the sender. But according to the same spec, the forwarding is non-...
Sergei Tikhomirov's user avatar
4 votes
3 answers
139 views

Does a LN route with N channels at most require N-2 fee payments?

Assume we have a route n1 -> n2 -> n3 -> n4. My intuition here is that n2 charges n1 a fee and that n3 charges n2 a fee for routing payments. However, there's no fee for the last hop where n3 ...
torkel's user avatar
  • 466
4 votes
1 answer
175 views

Analyze Failed Routing in Core-Lightning

In my node I see many failed Routing Transactions. I did not really find information on how to analyze what went wrong. First I see Failed Transactions Local Failed Transactions - reason always "...
timmornYE's user avatar
  • 125
4 votes
1 answer
135 views

What is the purpose of the announcement_signatures message as specified by the Lightning Network RFC?

Isn't the channel_announcement message enough for channel advertisement? Why is the announcement_signatures message required? Reference BOLT #7
Samvid's user avatar
  • 105
4 votes
1 answer
103 views

Same entity controlling separated parts of a a lightning path

Given the lightning path Alice → Bob → Carol → Dave → Emilee (with Alice being the sender and Emilee being the receiver), assume Dave and Bob to be the same entity. By pulling funds from Dave to ...
UTF-8's user avatar
  • 3,224
4 votes
1 answer
86 views

What is "Link-Level Multiplexing"?

In a discussion about private channels, Conner Fromknecht mentioned a concept called Link-Level Multiplexing. What is this and what is it useful for? How does it work?
Murch's user avatar
  • 75.9k
3 votes
1 answer
542 views

Can someone please explain how Lightning paths are working and what effect large centralized hubs have?

Can someone please explain how Lightning paths are working and what effect large centralized hubs have? Dear community, I have read some stuff about lightning and i am really interested to ...
johnsmiththelird's user avatar
3 votes
1 answer
99 views

How do route hints affect pathfinding?

I understand that route hints can be provided when generating an invoice, but how exactly do wallets use this information to assist in pathfinding? I imagine this can vary slightly between ...
oz21m's user avatar
  • 107
3 votes
2 answers
429 views

What is the rationale for the Lightning network's path length limit (20 hops)?

A sender in the Lightning network can choose a path with up to 20 intermediaries (BOLT4). Tor is another network that uses onion routing for anonymity. However, in Tor all paths have 3 intermediaries,...
Sergei Tikhomirov's user avatar
3 votes
2 answers
689 views

Make payments Lightning without Invoice?

The Lightning-RFC defines, in BOLT #11, an invoice protocol for proof-of-payment. While this is a pretty cool feature, I was wondering if it would be possible to make a payment without such invoice. ...
ranchalp's user avatar
  • 567
3 votes
1 answer
1k views

What exactly are route hints?

In the documentation for LND's addInvoice rpc call there's a field for something called route_hints which are described as: Route hints that can each be individually used to assist in reaching the ...
arshbot's user avatar
  • 1,788
3 votes
1 answer
417 views

Why was the base_fee for the routing fee calculation of the Lightning Network included?

Currently and as defined by BOLT 07 on the Lightning Network, the fees for forwarding an HTLC of amount amount_to_forward are computed as: fee_base_msat + amount_to_forward * ...
Rene Pickhardt's user avatar
3 votes
2 answers
67 views

Is there actually a dilemma of whether or not to publish channel states for LN nodes?

I've heard that there is such a dilemma for LN: if channel states were not published, the payer will not able to find any viable path, unless he takes brute-force-like probing approach (which looks ...
Chris Chen's user avatar
3 votes
1 answer
447 views

Is it possible to design a hardware wallet that can allow operation of a routing Lightning node with the security level of a hardware wallet?

I'm wondering if its possible to design a hardware wallet such that it can be used for a Lightning node that routes payments for their channel partners such that their funds can never be stolen even ...
B T's user avatar
  • 1,638
3 votes
1 answer
503 views

Is it possible to rebalance channels by sending to yourself (from a channel to an other) in c-lightning? How?

I know it is possible with LND and I don't know if it is possible with Eclair. I have tried to issue an invoice and to find a route with the same node but I got the { "code" : -1, "message" : "Could ...
Gabriele Domenichini's user avatar
3 votes
1 answer
135 views

In which cases could I find funds locked in a failed route?

I received an invoice from node Z and my node (A) suggests me 4 possible routes. If the first two routes fail, are there cases in which funds can get stuck in one of these routes until the HTLC ...
Gabriele Domenichini's user avatar
3 votes
1 answer
558 views

Is Lightning Network vulnerable to sybil attacks?

A dialogue partner of mine claimed that Lightning Network is vulnerable to sybil attacks. He stated that LN needed explicit identities in order to support the "routing" which would cause ending up ...
Murch's user avatar
  • 75.9k
3 votes
1 answer
129 views

Would a min_fee setting for Lightning channels make sense?

What is a min_fee? Having a min_fee means changing the fee calculation to max(min_fee, fee_rate * amt), potentially replacing the base_fee. My reasoning behind this is that it prevents 0-fee payments –...
Fitti's user avatar
  • 31
3 votes
2 answers
132 views

Why do multihop LN payments start settling from the recipient's end?

In HTLC, after all the parties have locked their funds in the contract, claiming payment happens in a reverse way, starting with the receiver who reveals the preimage of the corresponding payment hash....
Subhra Mazumdar's user avatar
3 votes
1 answer
440 views

How does the 'queryroutes' function in lightning's LND calculate the route fees?

I am testing my own routing implementation and for some weird reason a handful of channels reject my payment stating InsufficientFee. The scenario is A -c1-> B -c2-> C whereby Node A is ...
Oonah's user avatar
  • 95
3 votes
1 answer
428 views

How can I send a payment to myself with lightening to rebalance 2 channels?

I have an active channel with bitstamp with a balance on my side. Bitstamp has an active channel with lightening power users (lpu) with balance on their side (I checked this with lncli queryroutes ...
user1035617's user avatar
3 votes
1 answer
192 views

Difference between capacity and max_htlc in Lightning Network?

What is the difference between capacity and max_htlc in the routing of payments in the network?
Jack's user avatar
  • 31
3 votes
1 answer
358 views

lnd stoped routing - unable to update fee rate

I used to have about 5 routings per day. Now, since three days I don't have any routing. In my lnd.log I find lines like this: grep ERR lnd.log 2021-09-19 22:40:53.187 [ERR] HSWC: ChannelLink(700510:...
Rainer Feike's user avatar